Author: beforetheywerelive Page 1 of 2

Kelly Gilbert’s Chart!

Click here to see the interactive version. It doesn’t embed correctly on this site.

Bono and Nietzsche said it better than me

This lyric could easily be about Aladdin mocking Prince Achmed only to basically try and be Prince Achmed one he becomes Prince Ali Ababwa.

They say that what you mock
Will surely overtake you
And you become a monster
So the monster will not break you

U2 Peace on earth

And, if I were witty – I would have just quoted Bono. Instead, I went for Nietzsch and pretty royally biffed it. (pun intended)

From the Genius.com annotations

This is an oft-used quote in Bono’s lyrics, by philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”

JWG

Mea Culpa Mystery and Robin Williams’ Genie Outtakes

ROBIN WILLIAMS may have been an incorrigible exhibitionist during his lifetime but in death, through his will, he has ensured his image will be tightly controlled.

The Oscar-winning comedian, who killed himself last year aged 63 after battling with depression and a neurological illness, has forbidden fresh exploitation of his name, taped performances or voice recordings for 25 years.

As a result, Disney has abandoned plans to make a fourth instalment of the blockbuster Aladdin animation, assembled from quips and other lines left on the cutting room floor during the original 1991 recording sessions.

John Harlow for the sunday times

There is a little mystery here regarding prequels and sequels. Michial suggested this was the same as the Aladdin movie tentatively entitled “Genies” – which The Hollywood Reporter first announced in July 2015 (Williams committed suicide in August 2014). And it makes sense that a film titled Genies would want to use the voice of THE GENIE, but plans to use his outtakes isn’t mentioned in the piece.

Disney is going back to the world of Aladdin, its 1992 animated classic, with a live-action prequel.

The studio is developing Genies, a live-action comedy adventure that is being written by Damian Shannon and Mark SwiftTripp Vinson is on board to produce via his Vinson Films banner.

Borys Kit for The Hollywood Reporter

However, the reports of posthumous blocking of sequels came in November 2015 – with no mention of Genies but only of an Aladdin Sequel. (Aladdin 4?) So – are these the same movies and sequel and prequel are being conflated? I guess if Genies releases prior to 2039 we’ll make this post a mea-culpa; hopefully it remains a curiosity.

The Disney executive told The Times, “Because [Williams] insisted on a final say on such material, [the jokes] will remain in the vaults” and a planned Aladdin sequel will stay on the shelf. Until 2039, that is.

JOANNA ROBINSON for Vanity Fair

The Picasso Sent To Robin Williams in Apology

Disney didn’t help its cause by sending Williams a late Picasso said to have cost more than $1 million. The painting is from a series of Picasso self-portraits in which he imagines himself as other artists; here he’s a one-eared Van Gogh. In the Williams living room, the painting has all the charm of a fright wig, clashing with the animal cages, the children’s furniture, and the mood of the owners.

Jesse Kornbluth

He Turns Into A Slot Machine Not A Cash Register

Al Hirschfeld: An Elegant Man & Elegant Line

Every animated film goes through its concept stage with concept art and looking for inspiration that will set the design tone.

When Disney artists sought inspiration for their new feature “Aladdin,” they turned to a very different source: the elegantly minimal caricatures of Al Hirschfeld.

Eric Goldberg – on his first assignment – brings the idea of looking to Hirschfeld to the Disney animation team.

“I look on Hirschfeld’s work as a pinnacle of boiling a subject down to its essence, so that you get a clear, defined statement of a personality,” explains “Alladin” supervising animator Eric Goldberg, who was in charge of the madcap Genie. “There’s also an organic quality in the way one line will flow into another: It may go along the back of a neck, down the spine, across the behind and the down the leg–all in one single line that is very, very elegant. I wanted the Genie to have that kind of elegance.”

And speaking of elegant – what a humble and elegant man Al Hirschfeld must have been to rattle off this quote:

“I’m very flattered that the animators say they were influenced by my use of line,” he says. “But art isn’t a 50-yard dash–it’s more like a relay: You keep handing it on to somebody else, and there’s no beginning or end to it. I didn’t invent the line: That simplification that communicates to a viewer goes back to the cave drawings at Altamira.”

Quotes pulled from this 1992 LA Times cover story.

Eric Goldberg

Goldberg’s first assignment for Walt Disney Animation was as Supervising Animator of Genie from Aladdin (1992), followed by co-directing Pocahontas (1995), animating Phil in Hercules (1997), and work on Fantasia/2000 (1999)

In 2006, Goldberg returned to Walt Disney Animation Studios, where he served as Supervising Animator for Louis and “Tiana’s Song” in The Princess and the Frog (2009). For this, Goldberg won his third Annie Award for Best Character Animation in 2009. He also animated Rabbit and the “Backson Song” sequence in Winnie the Pooh (2011). ForWreck-It Ralph (2012), he created hand-drawn animation tests of King Candy and Sour Bill. In 2013, Goldberg was the Supervisor of Hand-Drawn Animation on Oscar®-nominated Get a Horse! (2013). More recently, Goldberg created the hand-drawn animated character Mini Maui, the tattoo conscience of the Maui character for Moana (2016).

The Walt Disney Family Museum

It’s stunning that this was Eric Goldberg’s first assignment at Disney. I am sure there are other examples of one character’s design setting the tone and style direction for the entire movie – but I can’t think of one that was as influential on the look of the overall film as Genie’s was on Aladdin. Not to mention that it was his character animation test over Robin William’s standup that helped get Robin Williams to take the role – another huge impact on the entire animation industry. No wonder they awarded Eric the Winsor-McCay for lifetime achievement. He lifetime achieved in his first assignment!

Definitive Guide to Aladdin’s Genie Impressions

If you’re as baffled as Aladdin, or – let’s be honest – me, with Genie’s many impressions, then the fine folks over at Lazertime have got you covered with a breakdown of not only who is being impersonated, but also a brief synopsis of what makes them pop-culture notables.

Jafar Katzenberg

This was drawn by Nik Ranieri and I found it on Andres Deja’s blog. We mention Andres Deja pretty regularly on the show because he’s so well spoken about animation, and because his blog is an incredible resource for animation fans.

Robin Williams: The Trope Codifier of Star Power

Via: TVtropes.org

Trope Codifier – does not claim originality, but is the template that all later uses of this trope follow.

In other words, if in tracing the history of a trope, one example stands out as the template that many, many other examples follow, that’s the Trope Codifier.

Aladdin is the Trope Codifier in Western Animation for the value of star power in casting voice actors.

And, as expected, TV tropes as a whole lexicon of these terms beyond Trope Codifier and Ur-Example including Trope Maker and The Most Triumphant Example.

episode 31: Aladdin Featuring Special Guest Tim Rhodes

episode 31: Aladdin Featuring Special Guest Tim Rhodes

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Literacy in 18th Century France

Here is a fun little map and visualization tool from Our World In Data.

Beauty and the Beast by Jeanne-Marie LePrince de Beaumont

Read the original in French (for Michial) or English (for the rest of us)

episode 30: Beauty and the Beast Featuring Special Guest Kate Henreckson

episode 30: Beauty and the Beast Featuring Special Guest Kate Henreckson

Episode

Appendices

Curiosities

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Mea Culpa

[display-posts category=”Beauty and the Beast” tag=”mea-culpa”]

L’esprit de L’escalier

[display-posts category=”Beauty and the Beast” tag= “lesprit-de-lescalier”]

Bibliography

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The ‘wide lawns’ myth: Ernest Hemingway in Oak Park

Well, this is disapointing.

It’s a very compact, Hemingway-esque line, repeated often here in Oak Park. But it appears that Ernest Hemingway never said ­­­— or wrote — that his hometown was a place of “wide lawns and narrow minds.”

“We’ve never found it,” says Rose Marie Burwell, scholar and author of “Hemingway: The Postwar Years and the Posthumous Novels.”

Fans of Hemingway may enjoy the full article by Robert K. Elder of the Chicago Tribune.

Politics by Aristotle

Man is by nature a social animal; an individual who is unsocial naturally and not accidentally is either beneath our notice or more than human. Society is something that precedes the individual. Anyone who either cannot lead the common life or is so self-sufficient as not to need to, and therefore does not partake of society, is either a beast or a god.

Aristotle

Support your local library through WorldCat or purchase at BetterWorldBooks

The Unbearable Critiques of Fairie as Demonstrated by The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt

From a Vulture recap of Season 4, Episode 5: Kimmy and the Beest!

Hudson tells Kimmy not to worry, because the Beast is a good guy in the end, but she disagrees: “What’s the message here? Take a girl prisoner, tell her what clothes to wear, then she’ll fall in love with you because you didn’t straight-up eat her?… Kiss girls while they’re sleeping? Climb their hair whenever you want? Bust into ladies’ houses and steal a shoe? I always knew this fairy-tale stuff was lousy for girls, but it stinks on ice for boys, too.”
Kimmy’s right, of course, and Titus, who grew up where theater was considered gay by the state Board of Education, is the perfect example of how patriarchy hurts men as much or more than women.

I’ve never seen the show, and so this is not a specific critique. However, the framing in the recap is a perfect example of how our modern imaginations about fairy tales, and indeed anything not of “the moment,” have been so corrupted as to miss the point completely followed by a celebration of the bungle as a form of virtue signaling. I can only hope that our show pushes back against this tendency in some small way.

A Good Man Is Hard to Find by Flannery O’Connor

“She would’ve been a good woman,” said The Misfit, “if it had been somebody there to shoot her every minute of her life.” 

Flannery O’Connor

Support your local library through WorldCat or purchase at BetterWorldBooks.

The Weight of Glory by C.S. Lewis

In listening to Belle sing “I want adventure in the great wide somewhere
I want it more than I can tell!” we can hear echoes of Lewis’ idea of our “desire for our own far off country” which he describes in The Weight of Glory:

“In speaking of this desire for our own far off country, which we find in ourselves even now, I feel a certain shyness. I am almost committing an indecency. I am trying to rip open the inconsolable secret in each one of you—the secret which hurts so much that you take your revenge on it by calling it names like Nostalgia and Romanticism and Adolescence; the secret also which pierces with such sweetness that when, in very intimate conversation, the mention of it becomes imminent, we grow awkward and affect to laugh at ourselves; the secret we cannot hide and cannot tell, though we desire to do both. We cannot tell it because it is a desire for something that has never actually appeared in our experience. We cannot hide it because our experience is constantly suggesting it, and we betray ourselves like lovers at the mention of a name. Our commonest expedient is to call it beauty and behave as if that had settled the matter. Wordsworth’s expedient was to identify it with certain moments in his own past. But all this is a cheat. If Wordsworth had gone back to those moments in the past, he would not have found the thing itself, but only the reminder of it; what he remembered would turn out to be itself a remembering. The books or the music in which we thought the beauty was located will betray us if we trust to them; it was not in them, it only came through them, and what came through them was longing. These things—the beauty, the memory of our own past—are good images of what we really desire; but if they are mistaken for the thing itself they turn into dumb idols, breaking the hearts of their worshipers. For they are not the thing itself; they are only the scent of a flower we have not found, the echo of a tune we have not heard, news from a country we have never yet visited.”

I pulled that quote from goodreads. You can support your local library through WorldCat or purchase the book at BetterWorldBooks.

Of course there’s a Beauty and the Beast reference in Hamilton. How could there not be?

While I was putting together the bibliography for our Beauty and the Beast episode, I came across this Entertainment Weekly article that explains the reference in the song “Take A Break”

“I actually have a ‘Screw your courage to the sticking place’ quote in Hamilton and it’s a nod to both Shakespeare and Howard Ashman

Lin-Manuel Miranda

Hamilton contains multitudes.

The Tragedy of Macbeth by William Shakespeare

Screw your courage to the sticking place

Lady Macbeth (The Tragedy of Macbeth Act i scene vii)

Find it in a library through WorldCat or purchase at BetterWorldBooks

Sioux Center Arts Facebook Page

Michial met our special guest Kate Henreckson at the Culture, Criticism, and the Christian Mind conference at Dordt College in Sioux Center, Iowa. Michial discovered Kate played Belle in the stage production of Beauty and the Beast, and she is the biggest fan of the movie Michial has ever met. A perfect guest for our show.

Kate is the arts director at Sioux Center Arts, and you can keep up with her on the Facebook page.

Around The Network: Christian Humanist Podcast, Episode #225: The Idea of a Christian Society

One of a handful of times that Michial Farmer, David Grubbs, and Nathan Gilmour graced the same physical space and time.

Michial Farmer talks with David Grubbs and Nathan Gilmour about T.S. Eliot’s essay “The Idea of a Christian Society.” This episode comes to you live from the Culture, Criticism, and the Christian Mind conference at Dordt College in Sioux Center, Iowa.

Show Notes

Disney Villain Death

From TVtropes.org Please click the link to see the caption they have on the picture above. It is *kisses fingers* perfection.

The varied list of things to fall from includes cliffs, over waterfalls, out of trees, and off the tops of buildings. There is at least one case of a Disney villain meeting his end by falling up(off a spaceship and into space), and once sideways (off the Chinese Imperial Palace by the aid of a rocket). A surprising number of Disney villains have also been dragged to their doom by demons (up to three depending on how you’re counting).

The Eagle (read: Red-Tailed Hawk) Screech

From a soundsnap.com article: 5 Most Identifiable (and Overused) Sound Effects in Cinema

The gorgeous eagle that has awed us on-screen is an imposter. Let me explain: that sound that everyone associates with an eagle as it soars into view in a movie? Yeah, it’s actually not an eagle at all. That screech that the sly eagle has been passing off as his legendary call is actually the screech of a red-tailed hawk.
 
The sound that the eagle actually makes is…well, let’s just say it’s far more adorable and not nearly as impressive as that of the hawk. Which is why it’s been traded for an eagle call in movie scenes; filmmakers have all agreed that it just sounds cooler and goes with the impressive beauty of the soaring eagle. Poor hawk though.

Frank Welker

From IMDB, Frank Welker’s Disney Animated Canon roles:

Brother Bear (additional animal vocal effects – uncredited) 

Mulan 
Khan / Cri-Kee (voice)

The Hunchback of Notre Dame 
Baby Bird / Djali (voice)

Pocahontas 
Flit (voice)

The Lion King 
Lion Roars (voice)

Aladdin 
Abu / Cave of Wonders / Rajah (voice)

Beauty and the Beast (special vocal effects) 

The Rescuers Down Under 
Joanna (voice)

The Rescuers Down Under (performer: “Home On The Range (McLeach Version)” – uncredited) 

The Little Mermaid 
Max (voice, uncredited)

Oliver & Company 
Carlo / Louie the Sausage Vendor / Animal Sounds (voice)

The Great Mouse Detective 
Toby the Dog / Felicia the Cat (voice, uncredited)

Camp Candy

Fair warning: I didn’t watch that whole clip, so I have no idea what you might see. Then again, it’s not really my nostalgia as I’d never heard of the television show Camp Candy until Michial mentioned it on the show.

The White Stripes and the value of creative constraints

From a New York Times Magazine interview in 2003. Emphasis added.

JACK: It’s not counter to us. It’s what our band is about. We’re white people who play the blues, and our problem was how do we do that and not be fake? Our idea was to strip away everything unnecessary, to put ourselves in a box, to make rules for ourselves.

What sort of rules?

JACK: In live shows, we never play from a set list. The last record, we said, no guitar solos, no slide guitar, no covers.
And no bass?

MEG: The last record had no bass. This one has some bass. We’re not against the bass.

Why hem yourself in with restrictions?

JACK: It makes the band what it is. I’m disgusted by artists or songwriters who pretend there are no rules. There’s nothing guiding them in their creativity. We could’ve spent six months making our last album. We could have recorded 600 tracks. Instead, we went and made the whole album, 18 songs, in 10 days.

And, from an editorial written in 2011, Why Meg Matters, after the band broke up. Again, emphasis added.

But just because Jack was the primary creative force in The White Stripes doesn’t mean Meg was inessential. I’ll quote Jack himself, from an interview I did with him just before Icky Thump was released:

AVC: Does a White Stripes song have certain parameters?

JW: Oh yeah, lots of them do. There’s an overall structure of simplicity, and it revolves around Meg’s drumming style. And it can’t be beat. We can’t do those structures in The Raconteurs. We couldn’t do them if we wanted to, and that’s the beauty of Meg. In The Raconteurs, there’s so many more components, so many more personalities involved. If you get another person in the room, you’re dealing with something else. It’s a different kind of collaboration, you know? The parameters of The White Stripes… you know, 70 to 80 percent of what we do is constriction, and the other 20 to 30 percent is us breaking that constriction to see what happens.

Percival C. McLeach probably has nothing to do with Archibald MacLeish

A poet, playwright, lawyer, and statesman, Archibald MacLeish’s roots were firmly planted in both the new and the old worlds.

McLeach is an evil and eccentric poacher who captures rare animals and sells them, usually for their hides.

Movies Are Prayers: How Films Voice Our Deepest Longings by Josh Larsen

“Movies are our way of telling God what we think about this world and our place in it. . . . Movies can be many things: escapist experiences, historical artifacts, business ventures, and artistic expressions, to name a few. I’d like to suggest that they can also be prayers.”

Josh Larsen puts movies into the categories of: Praise, Yearning, Lament, Anger, Confession, Reconciliation, Obedience, Meditation and Contemplation, and Joy. I make the case for The Rescuers Down Under being a prayer of yearning.

Also, a couple Mea-Culpas: First, Josh Larsen was ” the film critic for the Chicago-based Sun-Times Media for more than ten years” not whatever I said on the show.

Second, I don’t think I actually have mentioned this book on Before They Were Live before. I believe I talked about it during the 2018 Christian Humanist Radio Network Halloween Crossover while discussing Alfred Hitchcock’s Shadow of A Doubt on Sectarian Review. Fun episode, and great show overall. You should check it out!

Finally, I probably should have mentioned that friend of the show Ethan McCarthy was instrumental in getting the book published. Nice job Ethan!

episode 29: The Rescuers Down Under

episode 29: The Rescuers Down Under

Episode

http://74.208.244.238/BeforeTheyWereLive/Episode029.mp3

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Mea Culpa

[display-posts category=”the-rescuers-down-under” tag=”mea-culpa”]

L’esprit de L’escalier

[display-posts category=”the-rescuers-down-under” tag= “lesprit-de-lescalier”]

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[display-posts category=”the-rescuers-down-under” tag=”Bibliography”]

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episode 28: The Little Mermaid Featuring Special Guest Emily Rodgers

episode 28: The Little Mermaid Featuring Special Guest Emily Rodgers

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Mea Culpa

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L’esprit de L’escalier

[display-posts category=”The Little Mermaid” tag= “lesprit-de-lescalier”]

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episode 27: Oliver and Company

episode 27: Oliver and Company

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[display-posts category=“oliver-and-company” tag=”mea-culpa”]

L’esprit de L’escalier

[display-posts category=“oliver-and-company” tag= “lesprit-de-lescalier”]

https://twitter.com/the_alt/status/1214092732819329025

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Deuterocanonical 4: Mickey’s Christmas Carol

Deuterocanonical 4: Mickey’s Christmas Carol

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L’esprit de L’escalier

[display-posts category=“mickeys-christmas-carol” tag= “lesprit-de-lescalier”]

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episode 26: The Great Mouse Detective Featuring Special Guest David Grubbs

episode 26: The Great Mouse Detective Featuring Special Guest David Grubbs

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L’esprit de L’escalier

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episode 25: The Black Cauldron Featuring Special Guest Nathan Gilmour

episode 25: The Black Cauldron Featuring Special Guest Nathan Gilmour

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Mea Culpa

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L’esprit de L’escalier

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episode 24: The Fox and the Hound Featuring Special Guest Wesley Rodgers

episode 24: The Fox and the Hound Featuring Special Guest Wesley Rodgers

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Mea Culpa

[display-posts category=“the-fox-and-the-hound” tag=”mea-culpa”]

L’esprit de L’escalier

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https://twitter.com/quellebummer/status/1169968575135850498
https://twitter.com/quellebummer/status/1169968702588149760
https://twitter.com/quellebummer/status/1169993063483215874
https://twitter.com/quellebummer/status/1169993136749391872
https://twitter.com/quellebummer/status/1169993205418532867
https://twitter.com/quellebummer/status/1169993327820849152
https://twitter.com/quellebummer/status/1169993584331886597
https://twitter.com/quellebummer/status/1169993641995177984
https://twitter.com/quellebummer/status/1169998979351961600
https://twitter.com/quellebummer/status/1169969301970964481
https://twitter.com/quellebummer/status/1170336746216808448

Deuterocanonical 3: Mary Poppins

Deuterocanonical 3: Mary Poppins

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episode 23: The Rescuers

episode 23: The Rescuers

Episode

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Mea Culpa

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[display-posts category=“The-Rescuers” tag= “lesprit-de-lescalier”]

https://twitter.com/quellebummer/status/1147145950193958912

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https://twitter.com/zrog89/status/1147152314811277312
https://twitter.com/quellebummer/status/1147152529018544129
https://twitter.com/zrog89/status/1147153389509369856
https://twitter.com/quellebummer/status/1147157363679514626
https://twitter.com/zrog89/status/1147157524493275136
https://twitter.com/Chris_Buckley/status/1147148845454770178
https://twitter.com/Chris_Buckley/status/1147161474927775744
https://twitter.com/Chris_Buckley/status/1149389720159432706
https://twitter.com/Chris_Buckley/status/1149508309977722880
https://twitter.com/the_alt/status/1148874662228713473
https://twitter.com/quellebummer/status/1148381937901457415
https://twitter.com/quellebummer/status/1148395887628115968

episode 22: The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh

episode 22: The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh

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episode 21: Robin Hood

episode 21: Robin Hood

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Mea Culpa

[display-posts category=“Robin-Hood” tag=”mea-culpa”]

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episode 20: The Aristocats

episode 20: The Aristocats

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https://twitter.com/the_alt/status/1113799237115031553

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https://twitter.com/quellebummer/status/1159254235529261056

episode 19: The Jungle Book

episode 19: The Jungle Book

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episode 18: The Sword in the Stone Featuring Special Guest Coyle Neal

episode 18: The Sword in the Stone Featuring Special Guest Coyle Neal

Episode

Appendices

Curiosities

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Mea Culpa

[display-posts category=“the-sword-in-the-stone” tag=”mea-culpa”]

L’esprit de L’escalier

[display-posts category=“the-sword-in-the-stone” tag= “lesprit-de-lescalier”]

Bibliography

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Deuterocanonical 2: The Shorts of the Fifties

Deuterocanonical 2: The Shorts of the Fifties

Episode

Appendices

Curiosities

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Mea Culpa

[display-posts category=“the-shorts-of-the-fifties” tag=”mea-culpa”]

L’esprit de L’escalier

[display-posts category=“the-shorts-of-the-fifties” tag= “lesprit-de-lescalier”]

Bibliography

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episode 16: Sleeping Beauty

episode 16: Sleeping Beauty

Episode

Appendices

Curiosities

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Mea Culpa

[display-posts category=“sleeping-beauty” tag=”mea-culpa”]

L’esprit de L’escalier

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https://twitter.com/victoriarfarmer/status/1059525515827130368

episode 15: Lady and the Tramp Featuring Special Guest Sara Klooster

episode 15: Lady and the Tramp Featuring Special Guest Sara Klooster

Episode

Appendices

Curiosities

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Mea Culpa

[display-posts category=“lady-and-the-tramp” tag=”mea-culpa”]

L’esprit de L’escalier

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episode 14: Peter Pan

episode 14: Peter Pan

Episode

Appendices

Curiosities

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Mea Culpa

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L’esprit de L’escalier

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episode 13: Alice in Wonderland

episode 13: Alice in Wonderland

Episode

Appendices

Curiosities

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Mea Culpa

[display-posts category=“alice-in-wonderland” tag=”mea-culpa”]

L’esprit de L’escalier

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Bibliography

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Deuterocanonical 1: The Shorts of the Thirties and Forties

Deuterocanonical 1: The Shorts of the Thirties and Forties

Episode

Appendices

Curiosities

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Mea Culpa

[display-posts category=“the-shorts-of-the-thirties-and-forties” tag=”mea-culpa”]

L’esprit de L’escalier

[display-posts category=“the-shorts-of-the-thirties-and-forties” tag= “lesprit-de-lescalier”]

Bibliography

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